Hi Efficiency Welders

Hey guys, it's time for another episode of Space Welders. Episode 83, recorded Friday 9th of June 2017. Hi Efficiency Welders, with your hosts Mike Wise and Steve Rogers. It's the PodConcast yet again this week, obviously with Apple WWDC, we'll get into that shortly.

How was your week this week Steve? Efficient. Was it? Yes.

Highly efficient? Nothing laid out. Are you sporting a new file format that's ISO certified, is that the way you get it done? No.

I'm FAT32 all the way. FAT32. Never going to let it go. Never going to let it go.

So obviously this week, the big, apart from, I don't know, more Trump stuff going on, Caffefe and all that sort of stuff happened. Well Caffefe... Oh that thing's just stupid, it was a misspelling. He meant coverage.

He meant coverage. It's like, of all the things to make fun of Trump about, a misspelling on a tweet is not it. End out, shall not, Kyle. Yeah, so there's plenty of stuff going on, obviously Combie is getting the grill at the moment and Trump's lawyer fired back and yada yada so what, and plenty of material for late night talk show hosts to carry on with.

But if you weren't looking at late night show hosts talking about Trump, you're probably looking at Apple's WWDC and getting excited about that. Perhaps not. The way I've been consuming it is on Apple TV, Apple, and a week beforehand what they do is they pop out another icon on your Apple TV. You don't even ask for it, it just forces itself out onto your springboard there and then it says watch me whenever you can.

So yeah, so a massive announcement set from Apple and I think everyone generally is happy with some of the things that they were obviously talking about in terms of upgrades and new hardware and new software and iOS and upgrades for everybody, I think. It's just sort of standard Apple kind of bi-yearly announcement, isn't it, at this point? This time? Nothing special.

No. Apple's never going to come out with an iPhone like the way when they brought out the original iPhone. I think we talked about this at the last WWDC, or the last announcement, when I watched the original Steve Jobs announcement thing when he first announced the iPhone. They're too big and they're too inertia-full...

inertia-full? Full of inertia. Sounds like what I had this week. To innovate to that degree.

It's always going to be little teeny things like a touch bar on a laptop. It's all incremental and I think the fact that they released the upgrade to OS X was called High Sierra, which was just all about refinements and things that they've already released or had waiting to release or they're waiting to do or had a lot of work already going on, was ready for this conference. But they had, as Tim Cook announced, six things to talk about and it was primarily around the upgrades to the operating system and new things to see and do in the operating system. Particularly Swift gets an upgrade as well, which is interesting.

A lot of the features that they were showing off in Swift are kind of like things that you're quite used to in C Sharp and other forms of languages, which are a bit more mature. But you can see Swift, it's working its way there. It'll become number one one day. I think it's probably going to be the dominant.

Absolutely. There's no doubt in my mind. For iPhone development, maybe. No, no.

Across the board. It's because you can go back to Lua and run, you know, because they're introducing Clang and aspects around Lua, you can kind of see their positioning later on for running it as across everything. So if you just wanted to write something from server code right through to UI code, Swift will be that, the god, the golden child. But I think the biggest drinking game that was possible in the announcement was anytime you heard machine learning.

So machine learning was just constantly trotted out, mentioned. It's already on the phone, like there are already libraries in use. What they're saying now is that you can, as a developer, access all of the machine learning capability or reuse it with inside your coding tools. Is this like when your computer can remember where the keys are in the truck and learns how to be cool and do a high five?

Not really. Is it that kind of machine learning? They've already been ripping off, well, ripping off. They've already been using existing machine learning libraries out there, and mainly Python-based ones and ones that have been pre-trained.

But it was already there to begin with, like from making suggestions to you while you type SMS messages and so on. So they've provided now kits. So there's plenty of kits that have become available. I'll just go through some of the announcements and just summarize a few things because, you know, this is a summarization podcast and we'll get past this because there's lots of things in here which are surprising that you wouldn't have thought of that they did announce, or things that stuck out to me anyways.

But Amazon Prime coming to Apple TV, which is really interesting. So Amazon Prime's got lots of good programming. So now you don't even have to get off your couch to get your laptop that's on the floor to order your next bag of Doritos and Mountain Dew. Yeah, you can just do it right there from Siri.

Amazing. And then if they get the drones working, you open up your doors, your drone just flies straight in, drops it on your lap, there you go. Yeah, it's pretty simple. We are in the world of Wall-E with just sitting on couches and ordering shit off screens.

But I think they're going to have another announcement later on to talk about maybe a hardware upgrade to tvOS. The Apple Watch OS 4 came out, it's got new watch faces. One of the interesting things from it, two things that stuck out for me was they've now enabled Bluetooth, or native Bluetooth, on the watch itself. And two-way data exchange with certain gym equipment that's out there already.

So if you warock up to your gym equipment, and you can pair your phone with the Bluetooth radio on the gym equipment, you can get standard feeds. Now interestingly enough, this does dovetail to some of my current work, so it'll be interesting to see how Bluetooth on a watch and Bluetooth on other handheld devices play together nicely. So you have one buzzing in either hand, quite literally. And so I think that's kind of interesting that they're, I didn't know that they had Bluetooth built in.

Of course they've got Bluetooth built in, but making it available so that you can mess with it on the watch is an interesting proposition. So that means that other smaller devices can be controlled or made available to you. And they put a flashlight on the watch as well, which is something that you've got on the phone, but I didn't think you didn't have on the watch itself. That seems unnecessary.

Yeah, I didn't know. Yeah, it's like if I need... Because you basically have to have your phone with you to use the watch. No, no.

The watch is completely independent of the phone now, since the operating system 2. Only if you don't want to use it for anything but the time. Like if you want to use it for anything that you would get an Apple Watch for, you'd need your phone in your pocket. They improved the upload times and the independent nature of it.

They also put a new music app on the phone, which has been long coming. So OS 4 is getting closer to kind of what a phone, the operating system and the phone capability. So it's pushing... Are we at Maxwell Smart yet?

No. No. Or Knight Rider? No.

Well, I'm not interested. So then the Mac OS got an upgrade of sorts, it was really about refinement. So we've kind of got OS X Sierra, which is the name of the operating system it's called at the moment. But they're now announcing Surprise Shock High Sierra, HIGH as in high alto up sort of expression, but it's more about refinements.

Some of the big things that happened in there, and there's some really weird demos, like we've upgraded the operating system and we've done so many new things, but you can use mail in two windows. It was weird. Like they were pointing out things like, and you've got now in Safari... Think of the efficiency gains.

Yeah, and in Safari you've got this new thing that stops videos from autoplaying. But we've upgraded the operating system and there's so many other cool things. And I thought, I wish they would have Altair Force One change the presentation around to focus on the things which are meaningful, like the new Apple file system and how improved and quickly it processes files, for example. Like they demonstrated a copy operation, just a blink of seconds, that sort of thing.

Which is really of interest to normal humans. The other is Metal for VR. So they've now, and this ties in with all of the hardware releases, is that they've improved their native 3D driver software as such. And they're now supporting things like VR and they've been working with Steam.

So Steam is going to bring the entire Steam Everything and SteamVR. And obviously you can see, you know, Oculus conspicuously not there because they originally said the Mac was not good enough to bring their kind of crazy to it. But Steam said yes, obviously, and they've brought the SDK and everything. The other interesting thing, even though you can run Unity and Unreal games on the Mac, they now support Metal 2 in there and they're obviously widening up Metal API for doing a lot more things like, for example, using the GPU for compute of all of your machine learning models, take a drink.

So yeah, you guessed it, ML is just about everywhere. They've put ML now into Xcode 9 so you can just drag and drop your ML models in, take a drink and away you go. But they've got, if you want to upgrade, you'll need to be on an iMac or 2009 or later, and if you're on a MacBook Air, 2010 or later. I think Mac Mini is 2010 or later, so I've got a few machines which you can upgrade to this.

MacBook Pro, 2010 or later. So I get the feeling it's kind of from 2010 onwards. So if you've got anything before that. The other thing that was also missed out from the conference is they refreshed the keyboard on the MacBook itself.

So if you've bought a MacBook in the previous one, I've held off Steve because it just was not ready for me to upgrade into because A, the keyboard, and B, the specs it was packing. But they've since upgraded the specs in that as well. They also did a redesign of the App Store, so if you're familiar with getting stuff off the App Store. But a lot of the focus was really around a lot of the hardware upgrades and improvements moving to the Kaby Lake 14nm process chips being shipped from Intel earlier this year.

I thought Skylake was going to be the thing that seems like Kaby Lake is going there, but interestingly enough, Kaby Lake is one of the first ones where Intel had drivers for Windows 10 already ready. So it's the most baked version of anything they've ever had for a very long time. So it seems like Kaby Lake going forwards. Although much to the disappointment of, I think, Linus and Intel are having a fight at the moment.

We had a video, last week we were talking about Taipei Computex, and Linus was there and he put out a video which was 1.5 million hits. It got onto a Reddit front page and was basically bemoaning the point about Intel's lack of innovation or making the best product possible by nerfing a lot of their chipset and motherboard manufacturers just pandering along. So there was a lot of debate about that, but nothing like that here. But the interesting bit is that this announcement tends to quell a lot of the discussion earlier in the year about Macs being underpowered.

Are they developing a new cheese grater? I've got a cheese grater from 2010, it's perfectly fine, I've got 16 cores sitting on it because I've got 4 quad cores on it, Xenon processors. But the new Macs, they come with, you can get between 32 gig and 64 gig of RAM. They've got their new Fusion SSD all across the line, so it's ridiculously fast.

They've got I.O. on board and of course they're packing that thing with Thunderbolt 3 so you can do all of your crazy 5K monitors and stuff like that. It's interesting because you can get a 4K Mac at $1,299 USD, so they're really interested in trying to have a reasonably priced, even though the Apple hardware is expensive as fuck, machine that's accessible to runs. So that's $1,300 USD, so that's $3,000 in Australia.

Yeah, something like that. If you look at equivalent PC power and then if you add, say like your SteamVR on top of that, if you want to play Steam games, at least that's VR games, you're getting close to the sort of equipment you need to be able to do that, so I guess that's kind of what they're aiming for. But the other announcement was this, they've got this new badass iMac Pro, and it runs 18 Xenon cores, like I've only got 4 in my machine, but this thing runs 18. It also supports the Radeon Vega graphics, which we were talking about last week, and that was just announced, and so no one's got a reference spec of that at all, apart from Apple's got something going already on that chipset, so it must be pretty close.

And then you can whack 128GB of error correcting memory in that, so that's just crazy, plus a 10GB heap in there. But that's $5,000 USD, so it's not like $9,000, you'd have to stop drinking coffee. 5Palm is going to buy probably one or two, and you'll be the only one that can afford it. Yeah, and then iOS, some of the interesting things in iOS was, again, machine learning, take a drink, so they put all the deep learning and showed how that was in there, so they've got a new Siri voice, which I couldn't even tell the difference.

So she was like, doing what she does, and then they said, oh, we've used machine learning to improve it, and it's like, take a drink. And crazy, you couldn't tell the difference, but anyway, they've added translation into your messages, so you can type a message in, she'll translate it for you, whoop-dee-doo. A new dash... Does she know Klingon?

Oh, okay. Around the corner, sure. The other interesting thing, I didn't know you can do Doppler with Bluetooth or WiFi, but apparently you can, so I've got to try that out for myself, I've got my own little Bluetooth chips here, so I've got to work out how you can actually do Doppler with Bluetooth, it's called velocimetry, I don't know how to pronounce that properly, but there's a way of doing this, to detect whether or not your device is moving, just by looking at Doppler and WiFi radio, and they use it for, that's how they, I've always wondered how, when you park your car, I don't know if you've ever experienced it, Steve, but Apple... The little sensors that scream at you.

No, my phone says, my phone says, you've parked, Mike, I will store in Apple Maps where you parked. No, no, don't thank me, and it pops up this little message telling me that I've done that all. That's probably not Bluetooth, that's probably just a... I think it's a combination of things.

Accelerometer and location sensors, it knows where you generally park, like, you know, if you go, your phone knows where home is, it will tell you where your home is, if you say go home, it knows where home is, or it'll pop up, because it knows when you usually leave work, and it'll say, if you leave now, it will take you 52 minutes to get home, like, how do you know where I work, how do you know when I leave, and how do you know where home is? It's slightly scary. It's that machine learning. Well, it's locations tracking inside of the settings, we'll tell you the last session.

Siri knows all. Yeah, but the other interesting thing is, Peter Jackson turned up with Wingnut, so he's got another company out there that's working on AR games, and he's calling it Wingnut AR, and they had, he's obviously, UDK, Unreal Development Toolkit, must be clapping, you know, they, I think the night afterwards, they had their videos, Peter Jackson's videos on their YouTube site, so they were showing all of the features of this. Oh, look, it's an engine demo. Yay!

More demos and tech examples. Well, who knows, Peter Jackson's got a company, he says he's trying to build apps and stuff. Do something with it. Who's this showing you?

I've been saying this for months and years, enough of the demos. You could have a tech demo, Steve. Demo, demo, demo, demo, demo, take a drink! So anyway, there was a new iPad Ra, it's bigger, it's a 10-inch display, but they've now got the display the size of a keyboard, so you'd have like a proper keyboard, but the interesting thing is it's refreshing at 120 hertz, because they've got a brand new CPU in there, the ATEN X.

I'm waiting for them to bring out an iPad that's the size of their old Thunderbolt displays. iPad, the size of... 27-inch iPad. Isn't that just a monitor?

No, no, no, no, it's an iPad. It's portable, you can fit it in your pocket, see? The new chip is, the ATEN X is 40% faster than anything else, it's got 10-hour battery life, it's awesome. So that was...

The chip's got 10-hour battery life. No, no, it has the same standard 10-hour battery life, so they're saying the power consumption of the chip itself is better, better, cleverer, smarter, faster. iOS, the new thing in iOS, it's pretty hot, even if you've got an iPad, which I thought was interesting, is, drum roll, something you probably wanted from the beginning, drum roll... Folders!

Yay! You can already do that, can't you? No! You can't.

No, there's nothing like it. Yeah, there is. But they added folders... There's folders in iOS?

What are you talking about? No, no, no, that's the dashboard has grouping. This is folders for a file system, so they give you access natively to the file system, but they also let you add cloud-based storage like Dropbox and Google Drive and Apple whatever, and they give you like an actual browsing folder-y thing. The other thing that they did is also give you a new switch bar at the bottom, which looks hideous...

Well, it looks very much like the Apple Mac taskbar, so the bar at the bottom with the magnifier type of icons is now available on iPad. You mean the horrible to use hot and peck thing to select an app? That's it. It's sort of like iOS is trying to copy from macOS UI and vice versa, so they're kind of getting this mix and match thing, but they added drag and drop, which I kind of think is like...

Sure, folks have done that before, and that's true, but an interesting thing is that their take on it is that you can press and drag, so if you're moving a file, but if you want other files, you can use your other finger stick, and then you can select other files and add it to your drag, and then you can have multi-file drag, or multi-something drag. Anyway, the... I can count on one hand the number of times I've wanted that. So the file system I think is...

But now I can use two hands to count the number of times I've wanted that. Now you can add to the drag. Apple bringing you things you never needed or wanted. Yeah, it's from a software point of view, they brought in Core ML Take a Drink, so it's the Core Machine Learning Take a Drink, it's on everything, but it really takes a leaf out of TensorFlow, and a lot of it's based on pre-existing Python frameworks for...

processing for delivering machine learning. And what they've done is literally taken existing models. So there's really great demos where they show, you know, you're waving your camera around and they've got existing models and it's on the links and we'll have links in the description, but there's the Places 205, there's Inception 3 and the VGG-16 and the ResNet-50. And these are all pre-built models which basically identify things like people and cats and dogs and fridges and whatever.

And they have the classic it's a it's a banana not a hot dog demo, because bananas and hot dogs look the same, but you know it's pretty tricky if you try to identify through vision if there's something different. And you know they support other various models, but TensorFlow can take, you can, their model gets around in, they pronounce Jason really differently. Maybe it's a strange way of pronouncing Jason. We just say Jason, but they say Jason.

Every way through the... I call it Jaso myself. Jaso? Jaso.

Is it like? You know, like Tomo, Fredo, Georgio. There's a strange way of saying it. It's like, yeah.

It's like the first time I've... You've got to save those consonants. We're running out of consonants, Mike. You've got to save them.

In the technology industry, if I encounter a technology that's been acronymized, you know, like WSDL. I used to say WSDL all the time. And then I came across these other architects. I call it WSDLO.

WSDLO. Other architects in Oracle. And they corrected me with that usual IT kind of nerdy, you-don't-know-what-you're-talking- about. And they said, no WSDL.

And then that was met with sort of awkward, comey, Trump silence. It's like, sure, WSDL. Okay, sure. But anyway, yeah, so there's support.

So if you want to convert between the Jason formats and use it in TensorFlow, on the Tensor forum, they're showing different ways to do that, some Python code to go and convert things. And I'm pretty sure Sharp Tensor will have something for the .NET guys soon. There were various development kits, which was the purpose of WWDC, to teach people how to use the development kits. There's a kit for Siri.

There's a kit for music. Everybody gets a kit, Steve. There's, of course, a kit for AR. There's a kit for Metal 2.

There's a kit for music. But the interesting bits that came out of it was HEVC support and HEIF support. Now HEIF, which is the High Efficiency Image Format, File Format, which is the new, it's the, what, where do we go after JPEG or GIF or GIF? We go back to bitmaps.

And it's pronounced, it's pronounced Heath. So everyone's saying Heath. High Efficiency Image Format. So Heath.

So you can use that around work this week. You can say, is it Heath Format? Is it RAW? Especially if you're a project manager.

Especially, yeah. Can I have, ah, I've got Heath Format. The big thing about Heath is that it can store other forms of, well, first of all, HEVC, which is the High Efficiency Video Coding, that's just H.265, which has been around for a while, but they've now sort of burnt it in, but it's good for 4K. They've branded it.

Yeah, they've got a brand now and it's all ISO certified and everyone's happy with that sort of shit. But, so, if you're going to encode and do high, you know, you're pulling on 4K, then you're probably doing it in H.265. But, yeah, Heath is interesting because it actually allows you to combine other things into the file format. So normally on the JPEG and the, like, with PNGs and stuff like that even, they have like a couple of, a string of bytes at the front of the file saying this is what the file's all about.

Bit of a struct about the image header and whatnot. Same thing with Heath, but it's got actually a little bit of a file system going on inside of it. So you can go and add extra things, but you can have lossy compression, lossless compression, but have other sorts of things like rotations and, you know, other transparencies and thumbnail images all with inside it. So it makes it a bit more transportable, I guess.

So I think that's sort of the new hotness going forwards and Apple's saying, yep, we support that too. So I think it was a, yeah, and lastly the big thing that they announced, of course, was the, we have one of those too, which is HomePod. Now HomePod, you've probably seen Amazon's, whatever it is, Google Home Pod thing. It's a speaker that sits there and if you talk to it, it responds back to you like, Steve, you know, get me more bananas.

And off it goes to Amazon and orders more bananas. Apple brought out this thing called HomePod, but their shtick, I think their focus, they kind of said, no, no, no, you've got Sonos out there and you've got all these home control kits, let's go for the speaker angle and make, you know, Siri and all of that stuff, that's just a feature, that's just, you know, we've already got that covered, it's already in there, we don't have to talk about that. So anyway, they built the most crazy, amazing, awesome speaker ever. Like it's got seven tweeters, it's just covered in speakers, it uses the guts of an iPhone, I think they put an A9 something there and in there, and it has, I think what looks like a screen on the top of it, I can't really tell, but it gives you like a little waveform to say that it's responding or doing something.

You can talk to it, but its primary purpose is to play music really well and you can put two of them together and stuff like that. It's roughly around $349, I think, for the thing, so that's roughly, that'd be $500 something Australian. $1500 probably. Yeah, $2 million.

Yeah, so that was their innovation for the conference, Steve. So they did innovate, they reinvented, they reimagined, they re-somethinged music speakers thing. Bang & Olsen, Megan Bang & Olsen. They saw what Amazon was already doing and did it a little bit differently.

Did it slightly, well no, they won't, it's clear, we do not want to compete in this, that's a feature Amazon, that's just a feature. We don't, you know, we can have this other thing that includes all this other cool shit and then some, and it's a speaker. It's a speaker first, like the phone. The phone's a phone first.

It just so happens to have all this other wacky crap on it. So that was a jam-packed WWDC. There will be a lot of tired developers this weekend, Steve. No.

So next week on PodCon, I mean Space Welders, it looks like we'll be having more conference fun through E3, E323, the Entertainment Expo that is. And we normally do, around on the Welders, a bit of a breakdown of the E3s. It's all the games and whatever the gaming, big gaming people are coming out with software. So obviously Microsoft are going to be talking about their Scorpio, they've recently put up some video about, you know, what comes inside of Scorpio and what it's all going to do.

But then the various game makers come out, like Microsoft of course, Sony, PlayStation, Bethesda, EA, Sony, Ubisoft and Nintendo I think are presenting. All the usual. But the problem is, is that there really will be not very many new IPs brought to the table. A lot of it's the same sequels and sports games coming out again, so maybe that's the flavor this year.

Another Call of Duty. Well, it'll be the smaller, as usual, the smaller developers, the smaller publishers that actually have the interesting stuff. All the big people are, I don't know, too scared to change the formula. I don't know.

I mean, what, there's a new Call of Duty, a new Assassin's Creed, a new Destiny, a new Far Cry. Yeah, so on the 13th the conference kicks off and it'll be interesting to see if anyone turns up something new. So that's something to look forward to. In the coming days I'm pretty sure it'll keep us excited.

So Steve, on to media. It looks like you actually won the Doctor Who bet. I mean, it was obvious, come on. Totally called it.

Rove, you owe me. Come on the show. What did they say? I didn't, I again didn't watch it because screw that show.

No. Did Rove say oh my god it's amazing. Yes, one of them got it right, was Missy, who was in the vault. Of course it was, come on.

Well, I don't know. Mr. Blobby could have been Dougal, the dog. No.

Magical Dougal. It was Missy, come on. It could have been. Come on people.

It's Doctor Who. It's not exactly like a Christy mystery, you know. It's Doctor Who. It's not difficult.

Which reminds me, the trailer for Poirot's Murder on the Iron Express is out. With the most inappropriate music for a murder mystery Agatha Christie trailer ever. Yeah. Like, really?

Yeah. The Imagine Dragons. Yeah. What?

No. It's also got Johnny Depp in there, which makes me think, and it just seems a little odd or off, but maybe it might come together. I don't think it's a very, very good trailer, but oh well, they're doing it. And lastly, House of Cards, yes, as we're continuing to watch that and as it unfolds, sweet Jesus, what the hell is going on?

Random characters coming out from nowhere that aren't explained. I know that there's been spoilers in the newspaper recently about it, but... No, no, those were the Trump hearings. Oh.

Yeah, it's, yeah, I can understand your confusion. All right, so you might be able to explain somewhat. No. Not a chance.

So, that's it. And Twin Peaks, still nothing. Still nothing. I got nothing.

Twin Peaks, yeah. What's the release schedule on that? Sunday night or Monday, something like that. Oh, okay.

On Stan. So guys, that looks like it's pretty much it. I'm sorry, it really was dominated by Apple. WWDC is there for developers, much like Build is there for developers.

Developers, developers, developers. It is, yeah, but this time around I think Apple have got something to talk about. They've come through on, if you want some serious hardware, we've got it. Well, they've got lots to talk about.

It's not necessarily innovative or interesting, but... I forgot to mention, you know, last week we were talking about external graphics cards. You can now hook up external graphics cards to your Apple, if they support it, and then basically boost your graphics performance. So if you want to play Call of Duty, blah, blah, blah, on your laptop, you can do that.

Probably it's mainly for VR, so if you want to do VR on your old-school laptop, you can do that too. So, you know, I think they, it's not like they don't listen, I think they've probably got a ton of shit coming out, and of course they're going to move offices later on. It's not like they don't listen, they just don't care. Oh yeah, there's a clear difference.

So Steve, if you're highly efficient and want to get in contact with the developers, you immediately press compose in your high-efficiency email compose-browse thing, and you would send a message to the Space Vaulders, what would you say? Hi. I mean, sufficient gets your message across. What more do you want?

That is efficient. Yeah. If you're slightly less efficient, just head over to www.spacevaulders.com, there's a contact us link, you can click on that, you can fill out a form, put in a little bit of a capture, because screw those bots, and then click send. If you're even less efficient, subscribe to the show on iTunes, Stitcher and SoundCloud, just do a search for the Space Vaulders podcast.

Make sure you like, favorite, subscribe, tweet, Facebook, I don't know, LinkedIn. LinkedIn us. Share us on LinkedIn. No, no, Steve, in iMessages, you can now send Apple Pay directly to iMessage.

Steve's mobile number is... Send us money on iMessage. You can follow us on Twitter, twitter.com slash spacevauldersmikes, on twitter, twitter.com slash michaelunderscorewise. I'm on Twitter, twitter.com slash theskepticaldev.

We're also on Facebook, we're also on... I don't know, what else are we on? Earth. Earth.

We're also on Earth. Follow us on Earth, and then we'll get you done for stalking. We have physical mail addresses. Yeah, but we're not giving those out.

Yours, yes. Make sure you head over to the store, get some merch. There's a special on, there's a special on, later on in July, later in this month, we'll put a tweet, but I think it's 20% off, Steve, it's 20% off. So rock that Space Vaulder shirt, Mike will buy you a beer if he sees you wearing a Space Vaulder shirt.

Guaranteed. Not guaranteed, but I will force him to. And finally, any questions, comments or feedback, email us info at spacevaulders.com. Hey guys, come to the end of another Space Vaulder's exciting as it is, made even more exciting by the events of WWDC, maybe I can pronounce that even better.

We'll still continue on next week, probably going to be another podcon, and anything in between, we'll talk about it too on this cast. So it's Mike out. Let's do that. Bye.